Fascia, Fitness, and Freedom: The Invisible Reality with Jill Economakis
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reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the show. We are diving today into the science of soul and movement with Jill Economakos. I hope I pronounced it right. Jill is the founder of Manna Pilates. Plus she's a health and multidisciplinary wellness practitioner. Also she's experience and spans from her experience spans from Stott Pilates and functional medicine to fascia release and sound healing.
Welcome to "The Invisible Reality." Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: and I'm
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: looking forward to our chat. Your background as a professional dancer for decades, so can you tell us a little bit about how professional dancer shape your understanding of anatomy compared to your formal Pilates training?
Like, how is that different? Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah. I
actually
got started
in dance at
the age of four
eight because I
I
was very sick.
lordotic. I had
A huge anterior tilt in my [00:01:00] pelvis, so I walked really funny, and my mom was slightly embarrassed by me, so she took me to the doctor. She's "What can I do?" And he recommended she did yoga with me every day at home, and she wasn't interested in that, so she signed me up for a ballet class. Ha, joke's on her because by the time I was seven, that's all I wanted to do, and she was driving me there
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, that's nice.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah. the it's amazing 'cause obviously I just studied the body and how to move it efficiently from that age. I taught dance once I was, like, 14. I started with pre-ballet, but then went on and taught at university and for dance companies, and so I was always studying the body, figuring out how to make it move more efficiently.
And strangely, a lot of dance teachers, I had a lot of old school Russian teachers that, they are incredible dancers, but don't really have an anatomy background.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yes.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: And it really wasn't-- And a lot of [00:02:00] forcing your turnout and things like that. You never turned about the external rotators of the hips.
You're just forcing
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: and that's why so many dancers end up injured and why their dance careers end so soon. But towards the end of my career, one of the dance companies I was with, the ballet mistress would come give us our warmup class, was a Stott Pilates instructor. And so she had us come in every once in a while to do Pilates with her, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, where has this been my
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: You fell in love.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah, I did. It was wild to be like, "Oh, there's actually muscles I can use to achieve those things, and now I know what I need to tap into." so that was really the catalyst. Unfortunately, I found Pilates near the end of my dance career 'cause I probably would've been able to dance a lot longer. But I then brought that piece into the dance studio I was teaching at and then Pilates ended up just taking over.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Do you still [00:03:00] miss dancing?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I do. It was wild because, it's so hard because it's all you ever know, right? When
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Only do that one thing. And I remember I had my big retirement performance and my retirement party at the ripe old age of 27. And I remember for about two years when people asked what I did I couldn't not say dancer.
I didn't know how to ex- introduce myself anymore. I didn't know who I was anymore. You hear that a lot with like Olympic athletes too,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: all they had known, that's all they trained for, and that's hard. So it was really hard. Like, a couple years later, I moved to Colorado and everything just started to shift more and more.
But I definitely missed that place to just be able to express myself without words.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: So what would you say the average of a dancer's retirement?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Generally before 30.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh my God, that's too early.[00:04:00]
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I know and you have a couple amazing people like, Baryshnikov, whose bodies were just designed to dance and do it long term, or they'll go into like choreography or teaching, things like that. But yeah it's a lot of strain on the body. And again, unfortunately, a lot of dance teachers don't take kinesiology or anatomy classes. So it's a, I think, I kinda cringe when I think about all the forced stretches. They used to have us lie with our backs on the floor and our bottoms against the wall into a side split. And because, again, my hips were so tight, they would have somebody take one leg, they'd take the other, and just slam them to the ground. I just cringe
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, I you know what? My daughter go to gymnastic and she loves it. I think she's gonna do it more often during the week. But I've seen that in gymnastic, like they force them to do the split
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: and I'm like, "Oh, that hurts."
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: It hurts, and it's [00:05:00] not safe. It's not safe. There's definitely a much more gentle approach that will assist in longevity in whatever you wanna do.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Was there a specific moment of like injury or like in your career as a dancer that shifted your focus from performance to holistic health?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah. And it was a bit of a journey. I have hyperextended knees, and so what a lot of people will tell you to do is bend your knees a little bit so you don't lock them.
That's not right. I'm gonna try to explain
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: your knee is like this... Oh, that's not a good visual. But if you're sitting with your leg on the floor and you go to straighten your leg and you're hyperextended, you do this, right?
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yes.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Your foot will bounce up a
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: inches.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah. So
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: what people say is "Oh, no. Put that foot down.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Your knee a little bit." But actually, if you place the foot down and tell your knee to straighten and squeeze, it will, and all of a sudden you don't just feel a quad, you feel the [00:06:00] hamstring, so then the knee joint is supported, right?
But I wasn't told that, so I started to, with that little bend in the knee, my lateral quad overdeveloped. I started pulling my kneecap off alignment, so I had terrible patella tendonitis. And then with all the tracking being off, my knees just swelled up the size of honeydew melons.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: And
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: my God.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: "Oh, let's take a break and rehab this."
It's, wanna be in this performance or don't you?" So you just keep pushing. And I remember I had been heading out I was in my senior year of high school,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I was walking like a, 99-year-old man who's never moved his body.
It was really painful, and I went to every doctor in Chicago, and they were just like, "Nope, you are done." And so just had to have this huge shift. I ended up "Okay. Now what do I do?" I went to a college that, in state that I [00:07:00] knew the of the dance department was a teacher who had a- actually was a guest teacher at one of our studios in my youth.
And so I just went there even though I wasn't able to dance, and I'd walk by the studio, and I'd just kinda look in, and my heart would break.
And and he was amazing. He brought me in, and what he would do is actually hang me from gravity boots every day. Bar with a little hook around, my ankles, and just dangle and kinda let gravity
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: things back in. And he started training me properly. So with that, I was able then to go into a dance career for a while after that. But, it was just such a aha moment for me knowing that there was a better way, there was a much better way.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: So what's the difference between this teacher and the other teacher? Did he have any background in anatomy or did he teach himself?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: He taught himself through the years, and I think the fact that he worked at the university where we had [00:08:00] kinesiology courses and anatomy courses, I think he also partaken in quite a bit of that, so he just had a much better understanding of that. then, fast-forward through the end of my dance career after being with a couple companies and meeting that woman who started teaching me Pilates it was just again, an aha moment of wow, we all tend to keep pushing our bodies when they're trying to give us a little message, right?
There's a little whisper that it's not enjoying what we're doing to it. And oftentimes we just think if I just keep pushing hard or push through it," but that's what ends up leading to injury. So I become really good at re-evaluating what does my body need and asking it not just when there's injury, but on a daily basis.
What does this body really need today? Instead of all that punishment we tend to put ourselves through.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh my God, that's beautiful. So demystifying fascia, the living whip. So for people who doesn't know that term or never heard of [00:09:00] it can you explain what is fascia and why it's very important for movement and mobility?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: yeah. Yeah. Oh, fascia is just amazing,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: it? So fascia is a connective tissue that surrounds every muscle, ligament, organ, bone in our bodies. It doesn't break apart anywhere, which is amazing. think of it as like a soft skeleton. It should be strong. There's, collagen protein in it, but it should also be hydrated and supple.
So it's strong and stretchy and can move with us. It facilitates blood flow and oxygen. So when our fascia is happy, there's not that restriction and tightness in our body. So what tends to happen is because of breathing patterns, poor posture, trauma, injury, surgery repetitive patterns, not enough movement, sounds a lot like the human [00:10:00] experience,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: right now with the modern life, yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah. That fascia that's actually beautifully organized tends to get disorganized and tight and crumpled, and then our whole body is overcompensating for those tight areas.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: You mentioned before because you were treating me for fascia what do you call it? Fascia
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Release.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: yeah. And then I saw you in the retreat, and you said fascia can store emotional trauma. So how does the physical manipulation or movement help release those non-physical blocks?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Because you think what moves energy, right? It's movement, it's sound, it's breath.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Mm-hmm.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: And think right now, if all of a sudden some monster came into your office and screamed at you, what would you do?
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah. Oh I'm hypervigilant, so yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah. [00:11:00] Yeah, and you're not alone, right? Everybody living in the sympathetic nervous system like it's a normal place to hangout
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: So our bodies are tight and we or even if we've had physical trauma in some place, that area becomes protective,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yes.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: right?
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: And, it's again, like when our muscles tighten up to protect us, that's great, but it's not supposed to stay there, like our nervous
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: if we
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Excuse me.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: release that it, it causes more problems. So oftentimes what I find when I'm working with people that have had a lot of trauma and they might mentally think they're okay with it, we might get to a part of the body, I have to reiterate it so much with people that you get to a tight spot in that fascia or what I call a sticky or spicy spot. What people wanna do is just start trying to work it out.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: very protective tissue does is some danger, and tightens up more and we end up bruising it,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: So getting into those areas that have been caring [00:12:00] for us and saying, "Okay, breathe, relax, let go. You're okay now." And when those tissues start to soften and let go and air, oxygen, and blood flows back in there, it can be, a huge emotional release for people. I have had people cry. I've had people laugh. I've had people get nauseous. I've had people smell strange things. So it's pretty amazing that when you can get into those areas and really relax with it, that's... one of the things I love about the fascia release work I do, while I take people and guide them through a program that might be best suited for them, they can do it anytime from the comfort of their own home so again, let's say you've had some tight injury in your body or trauma and, you're again, really protective. so you make an appointment for a massage or PT or something, which are [00:13:00] also great modalities. But let's say you make that call and you can't get in for three weeks. three weeks rolls around, you're running around getting your kids out of the ready for school in the morning, you're fighting through traffic, you spill coffee on yourself, you show up, there's bright lights, this person's energy is also off, and they're touching
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: It's like it you're describing me in the morning.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: a lot, right? So now let's say, everybody's cleared out, you find even five, 10 minutes for yourself, you can play your favorite music, you can be in an area you're comfortable with, maybe a little essential oil, a few deep breaths to calm you down, and then you can go into the work all on your own and be where you're comfortable to be within that day and on that part of your body. So I think, just very efficient that way and very caring that way.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: So before I ask my second, my next question, what got you into fascia release and trauma and all of [00:14:00] that?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: It was little curiosity and a little accident. I've been teaching Pilates for 20 years now, and I've you know, do group classes as well, but I'm, my majority of my work is one-on-one with people. because, let's say somebody's had a torn rotator cuff or something, or a new mom holding a baby, and they're coming in, this is all tight. You can try to keep, strengthen the opposing muscles, but if this area is tight and traumatized, what's gonna happen? It's gonna pull. It's just constant tug of war. When fascia started coming on the scene there was a lot of fascia health movement, in Pilates type of trainings. And I kinda went into that thinking, "Okay I can help my clients with that physical part so we can strengthen them faster." And I took the course, and it didn't it gave me just a little tiny slice of what, I, I wanted, and I was like, "There has to be more." [00:15:00] so I started learning. I took more courses, I read more books, I did more trainings, I practiced on myself. And not only did I s- first see, wow, I am seeing such postural changes in, three times the speed as I did before in my clients, or, all those areas that were like, they couldn't touch their toes.
Oh, now they have more mobility. I also like for myself who had been asthmatic and anxious as a kid, I was like, "Oh, wow. Like I can move my breath. I can
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Out of your chest and
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: my ribs move." That was phenomenal. And then I met Cheng on a retreat a few years ago, and we were talking about And he hadn't really heard of fascia at that
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: We started to really talking about it, and then he started, He first had me come on his retreat to teach other doctors about them. I'm like, "What? [00:16:00] You want me to do what?" But was like, "Wow, none of the doctors knew about it.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: no, none of us
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: None." And so then I got back and he started 'cause I'm in Denver, he's in Texas, he started sending me patients virtually that, have been through the wringer with their health.
Generally people end up with functional medicine route when they've been going through it for decades not getting any answers,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: That's true.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: So I started working with some of his patients that have had a lot of trauma and I just started noticing what was happening within them saying, "Oh, okay.
This is that piece that they were talking about," but I hadn't really experienced it yet. And so that was the first window to it. And as I've worked now with hundreds of people in fascia work and that one-on-one work, and knowing that if they're ready, and you can I can tell they're ready to go open that door and if they're not. So that's been wild. [00:17:00] And that's, I think, the nice thing about the breathwork that I'm doing now, which we can get into later. But sometimes people come in, for example, I had a woman come in from California who has terrible fibromyalgia and had been in a bunch of car accidents. And she came in, she's "Okay I'm re- ready."
She's not breathing. And I was like, "Okay, if I introduce any touch using any of the orbs on her body, sh- it's not gonna accept it." So taking her first through some breathwork and then seeing that door open and "Okay, now we're ready." And she was able to handle all that work beautifully.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow. So yeah as physicians, we have no idea about all of this. And the thing is, we don't have the time to learn
Or like to self heal. It's a lot. But thanks to you and Cheng you guys introduced it to many of us. And I [00:18:00] would just turn around and see Ali doing with the orbs, and I'm like, "What are you doing?"
He's "I'm releasing my fascia. I'm doing the work that Jill taught us." So about the orbs, what led you to create your own tools for fascia, and how do they are different from foam rolling?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Okay. That's a good question. Yeah. That's the thing. I've, I experienced myself the foam rollers, and I experienced I remember first someone's "Oh yeah, roll your feet with a golf ball." And, all these hard plastics and these hard rollers and too much. They're too much.
Again, we talked about trying to get into the tissue and allowing it to melt. And I knew that it had to have a little bit of give. It had to have a little bit of grip because we don't just plow, we also pin and mobilize. We twist the skin to get the
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: right? [00:19:00] And, I like the soft sphere, the inflatable one is great because you can use it on your diaphragm, on your organs.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: hurt as much.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: It doesn't hurt as much. And then when I've worked with people with fibromyalgia that's generally a place I start with let's just do the same stuff. So you've done the more ab more
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: release the
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: were talking about. But somebody with fibromyalgia, sometimes we just start with that inflatable ball and get used to that. So the density is important. The sizes are important. Using the small ones is almost using a thumb to get into certain places. The medium one is, more like a fist, and the max one's more like an elbow. Just different sizes so that you can go over larger muscles, smaller muscles.
You can get in between. You can use these, right on the muscle, right on the bone. They have enough softness
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yes.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: and size difference that you can [00:20:00] really get into the areas you need to.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: So it's the idea behind everybody is different
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yes.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: everybody needs something different. Yeah, that because foam rolling is wasn't ever for me.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: it's... Yeah. And it's big, it you can't get into small places.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah. All the we go into even like the armpit to get
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, yeah, I remember.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: ball for the,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: neck.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: in the front. And so even like the TMJ stuff or your feet or, there's all these little areas that you can get
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: the glutes. Like you just using those Mana Orb mediums into all the various layers of the glute just it never works with a foam roller
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: With repetition, does the pain go away or?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah, it does get better. So I always use the example because, I have, again, being asthmatic and then
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: kyphotic, when [00:21:00] taking the two mini orbs down the thoracic, when I first started that, that was like, I felt like there was two boulder rocks there. But now I don't even feel them
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: That's good.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: on it. So how I explain it to people is that imagine if you ever traveled with a necklace, when you get to where you're going and it's all knotted
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, that's... Oh yeah, it's all knotted up and I don't wanna take it off because I don't wanna go through untangle it. Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: it's hours of your time, right?
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: So the thing about the fascia work, unlike stretching,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, that's a good
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: right?
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: example.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: You might stretch your hamstring out, but the fascia's gonna pull it back. If you roll your hamstring, it's like you take out one of those little knots of that chain,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: And you roll again the next time, and it takes out another,
and
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: and then you keep going until all the link is out
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: and its smooth again. So, and again, little by little the whole system is connected. If I have someone that's "Oh, my low back is [00:22:00] really tight," I'm like, "Okay, we are gonna roll your feet."
If I know they can't get on the ground yet, they're like, "No, I said my back." I'm like, "Yep, we're gonna roll your feet." Because the fascia's from the bottom of the feet clear through the back body to the top of the head, right? Another example I really love to share, I saw a video once on, I think it's YouTube or something, and they had a fella in a unitard, and it had all
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: various fascia
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: it.
And they had him standing and they said, "Okay, let's say you had a shoulder injury." And they started taking the unitard and twisting it. So what starts happening? He's like this, right?
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: right? And then all of a sudden he's going.
They're like, "Okay, now lift your other arm." And he didn't have that same mobility in that arm. So let's say you're post- surgery and you're not supposed to do anything over here for six weeks, you can still benefit this side by releasing the fascia here or even in your QL over here.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: So it's really [00:23:00] cool because then I've just witnessed so many people be able to recover from surgery so much quicker too. It's pretty wild.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: You know what's sad? This is related to recovery and related to health, and we don't know anything about it, and it's not something that is related to medicine, and patients coming for decades having no solution. So I don't know if we're gonna see that in the future, but that would be awesome if
people like you have a place in the clinic or everyone know about that.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I think I agree. I also think, again, like this is another option. This is an important option post-surgery, before PT even. Often think about postnatal.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I think about all moms that end up again, with the shoulders rounded, the background is scoliosis 'cause they're
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: their kid in one hip.
They end up getting [00:24:00] scoliosis. All the weaknesses in their hips or that anterior tilt, like it doesn't just go back,
I think about that often. I wish there was more of a care package
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yes. That would be awesome. My pain and, like, all the tightness started one year after my kids, and no one knew what's going on.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: So you're a health coach. So from a health coach perspective, as a functional medicine health coach, what are the most common missing links you see in people's wellness routines and that movement can't fix?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: That movement cannot fix? That's a great question.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Movement alone, they have to add something else. Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Good question. So for me, it's, oh, stress. Let's start
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Everybody is so stressed [00:25:00] and, there's so much on their plate. They're hanging on by a fingernail. what'll happen, a couple things, especially my dear perimenopausal and menopausal women, right?
What happens is they're stressed, their bodies are inflamed, what do they do? They are unhappy because they may have put on a couple hormonal pounds or whatever, so they come in, "I just need a hard workout,"
"All I'm eating today is a salad, with raw vegetables." I'm like, Okay, so your body's stressed."
Now you're taking your poor digestive system and just putting a bowl full of raw veggies in there, so it has to work harder, and you wanna come in and do a harder workout. And you're going and running an hour on the treadmill when not only you're inflamed, but if you're perimenopausal, your tissues are breaking down.
You're losing collagen. You're doing a repetitive pattern and you're already inflamed. What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen to your digestion, your physical body, your mental body?" It's just that constant [00:26:00] punishment. So to me, it's like I always, I'll get my clients in and either before a session I'm like, "Okay, first we're gonna do some breathwork," or I might do a bit of a sound bath because sometimes, people, if they're trying to meditate or connect with their breaths,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I gotta pick the kids
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: finish this at
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: I
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: gotta do this."
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: have laundry.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: yeah, all those things. And the sound bath kinda just naturally takes them there and shifts their energy, which I love. And then I say, "Okay, it is 30 degrees outside. maybe like a warm soup," or something easy for your body to digest, and let's check in.
What does your body really need today? Oh, gosh, yeah, you are carrying a lot of tension there. Let's release that so you're able to breathe. Now you're able to show up not just for yourself, your kids, for your coworkers, whatever it is. So that is, that's a really hard one because [00:27:00] again if people keep thinking, if I push
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I restrict my eating, and I work out harder, and I work harder, and I...
Yes, I can do that for you. Yes, I can do that. Yeah. It's just
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: But
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: ah
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: I think it's the mindset too, because you see all the social media figures.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Someone just gave birth two weeks ago, and she looks gorgeous. I'm like, " I want that," but the thing is my body is different.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yes.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: In my pregnancy I continued... I have been fit all my life until I gave birth.
In my pregnancy, I used to do whatever I used to do before, and in my mind, although I'm a physician, in my mind a lot of people do that. They work out until the day before they gave birth. But my body couldn't take it.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so important to listen to it, and I think also to reassess
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: every once in a while. Like I had a few years ago some random things [00:28:00] popping up, and I was like, I used to run like six miles three times a week, okay? And then I have my Pilates
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh my God, you're an asthmatic patient and you run three miles? That's...
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: six miles. That's a whole separate story. I cured my asthma when I got pregnant.
I just turned 48. My body doesn't like this repetitive motion anymore. I was really tired from it, like weird little whispers from my body. So now it's okay, twice a week I run like three or four miles, but all the other days I walk. So I have to move my body more than I did before so I don't get tight and sticky, but I have to do it much more gently. And sure, there's like the 48-year-old, like olympic swimmer
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: You don't look 48 years old, just to let you know.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Thank you.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: I'm jealous. I'm just kidding.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: oh please, you are one of the
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Aw, thank you.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: and I mean that truly inside and
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Thank [00:29:00] you.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: We only see the people that, have somebody waking up and making their green juice for them and working them out at their house and driving their kid to school. You don't see the other stuff. And everyone has their own clientele, but same with the Pilates all the social media Pilates stuff.
You see everybody in their little half tops
and their 6 packs
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh,
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: 22 years old, like you can get
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: abs like me. I'm like, "Get back to me when you have a kid," and you're like all these other things, right? And I think if we really stop and ask ourselves like, "Do I want to grow old and still look great in a bikini? Or do I wanna grow old, be able to hike and crawl around on the ground with my grandkids
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: and have a strong immune system, and all of those things.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: When we really stop and check in with ourselves, we're gonna choose that second option, right? So I think that's important.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: You mentioned food. Do you direct or advise clients about food? [00:30:00] Something that might increase their pain or decrease their pain, or put them in restrictive diet or something? Plan.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Well, my favorite step to start with everybody is an elimination diet because again, like my whole like Pilates, I do it one-on-one because if you saw eight of my sessions in a day, they are all drastically different, right? 'Cause the bodies in front of me are drastically different, and it's the same with food. It's the same with our microbiomes are so different, right? So first, I think it's so important to figure out what foods we're sensitive to, which that's the best path to figure it out, two, give our guts that chance to heal and then think, "Okay, now what foods actually fuel us and make us feel good and vibrant?"
And then build from there.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh. So I have to nag about that. This is my third day, no carbs and no dairy [00:31:00] product,
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: No.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: and I feel like I'm starving because I don't eat eggs without cheese. I can't take the taste. I don't eat meat that much. I don't like the taste. So I'm like, "Oh my God." But the thing is, I'm starving. The nurse practitioner told me your body this is the withdrawal from sugar and all the other things."
But my pain is less in just those three days.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: It is. A interesting story is I had a client. She was so swollen and inflamed, and "I can't get my wedding rings on anymore." And she went to get tested for rheumatoid arthritis. She went to this appointment, getting tested for that, and I said, "Okay, are you done?" I said,
"Can I take you through this elimination diet?" It turns out for her it was corn, she never would've guessed, and it was wild. It was same thing. It was like three days later her rings fit her again, her joints weren't hurting her. It's pretty [00:32:00] wild. And I always tell people a couple things one, it doesn't mean you can never have it again. Know that's one of your sensitive foods, let your gut heal completely, and then know that's a food you can just have
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: in moderation. Oh. Okay.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: So it doesn't mean you nece- unless you have physical, violent reactions right away, you're throwing
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: don't have that food anymore. But if it's one of those things like, "Oh, my jeans feel tighter the next day, my joints feel tighter, I'm more tired, or my skin's dry," then it's like, "Okay, once my gut heals, I know that's only a food I can have occasionally."
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: I'm not swallowing or I swallowed or anything, but I do have pain whenever I move. That inflammation pain that the hot pain, like it's burning my joints burning. So I don't feel it that much anymore and that intense, which is I'm glad. Yeah. Today I was like, I was dizzy in the morning.
I'm hungry, and I'm like, there were some dates that I love to eat. I'm like, "Should I take this? [00:33:00] Should I just..." Whatever, yeah. Then I'm like, "No, I can do this. I can do this."
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yes. Yeah, and I... That's something I always tell my clients too. One, it's not about taking things away, right? It's finding really good substitutions that you enjoy. And at the end of the day, especially those of us that live in the US, all of that stuff will be available when you're done. You can still get a mango in December at midnight if you want in a month, none of it's going anywhere,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: just commit. It's such a gift to yourself. It truly... And I'm always amazed so you're gonna keep feeling terrible. You're gonna keep making all these doctor's appointments. You're gonna keep trying to take all these different pharmaceuticals
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: will help.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
It's like you have the power with just your food.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah, that's true. So can you can you mention like a, anonymously a story of a client that [00:34:00] stuck with, in your head of an emotional breakthrough when you did fascia release?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I've-- Yeah, I've had so many. I've had so many. That's a hard one to share without sharing too much personal information. And I think it's also when I see that happen with people, I'm grateful for all the tools
I
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: have in my best. Yeah. To
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: be able to nurture, not
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: just
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: hold space for them in that moment, but help integrate so they can, move, heal, begin that whole healing process after that. A beautiful story, and this isn't much an emotional release, but a emotional reaction due to the fact of how he felt. There was a patient I saw who had been a victim of a hazing [00:35:00] crime and was hit with a bat and left unconscious for a long time. And he suffered from severe seizures and debilitating daily migraines, and he worked with a functional medicine doctor who helped with the seizures. but we did some virtuals together, and we were doing some work, and he started crying. I said "How are we feeling? What's going on?" He said, "It's the first time I haven't had a migraine in
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: years.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: And I was I think people get so used to carrying around pain and trauma that they just,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Live with it. Feel like it's part of...
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: And their identity, right? And that's just how it's gotta be for them the rest of their life. And that's, even when I have people come in and they say this is... That's okay. We can do normal work." I said, "The work I do is to help get you out of pain. You don't need to stay in pain.
Like, let's,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: [00:36:00] Lets get you out of that.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: And anytime I can move the needle on the quality of life for somebody,
a little bit it's really it's powerful, and I feel very grateful for that.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: I feel like when someone in pain they forgot how they feel without it. Like it, because this is how I felt for a long time. I'm like, "That's not gonna go away. That's not gonna go away." I don't know how I'm gonna feel without it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah, I always relate it to an armor,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: You know like a metal
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: armor. And we put on one piece and head out for the day, and then sometimes we have to put on a little more, and then, we're just in this big protective shell, living with the weight of the world on us, right?
And when people can start living beyond their physical body it's so freeing.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, that's nice. You're Jill as an Oov instructor? Oov instructor?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I'm sorry, [00:37:00] say that again.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: what is an Oov instructor?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Oh, Oov.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: I don't know what is that. Can we talk about it a little bit.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Oh. The Oov.
Oh,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh my
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: goodness. It's such a cool
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: piece
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: of equipment a neurosurgeon actually developed. And it took him eight years to make it just right. I think he's based out of Australia. But it was a kind of the same thing. He found that most of his patients post-surgery only ever fully improved to 80%.
They didn't get their fu- full mobility back. and so he developed this thing. It's... Yeah, it's hard to explain just in
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: but it's neat because it has a little bit of compression, but then kinda comes back and supports you, similar to the Orbs that way. You can lie on it. So if you're lying on the Oov, it decompress
you're in neutral alignment, but it also slightly decompresses the spine while you're lying on it. Also your ilia, your scapula fall [00:38:00] freely, so they're not lying on the floor. They're fully able to move. So what you do, you can do a lot of fascia release work on it differently than we do with the Orbs.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Is it like a bed or something, or is it phone?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: No, it is. Hold on
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: on
Show me.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: for a little field trip 'cause I feel like I have one here in the house. My, at my home today. But you can do core work on it. You can stand on it. You can kneel on it. You can side lie on it. You can be prone on it. I do. Okay. Let's get this out of the, Okay. We are gonna bring this back and do a little show and
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Okay.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: because it is... It actually stands for Out of Vocabulary.
Because the... He would be working with the all the surfers in Australia, and he'd have boys lie on their back and try to balance with both feet up and arms reaching up, and they'd all be like, "Ooh, ah, ooh, ah,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: ooh, ah." [00:39:00] So out of vocabulary, but here it is. So they it comes in small, medium, and large, all depending on what your spine is. So your pelvis would be here, lumbar spine supported here, your scapula ends up falling here, and then usually this is where your neck would
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: and your head is resting on like an an inflatable ball that you have the air taken out of. But you can also stand on it with one or two legs. So you can see it wiggles a bit. You can side lie on it, which is really cool. you can flip it over this way and do some extension work over it.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: just really
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: so do they teach that in like physical therapy schools or...?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: So it's one of those tools, some physical therapists will know what it is,
Pilates instructors. So the developer started working with one of the Pilates
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: it's a, it's
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: so we can incorporate it with work on the reformer as
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: well
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: [00:40:00] now. It's really
cool.
Mm-hmm.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: So its a kind of game changer for spinal health.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yes, because the spine is supported, again, but decompressed. And you get all the feedback in the world. So if you're even just marching a leg up to tabletop and putting it down, if you're wiggling around, your psoas obviously isn't moving very efficiently, which leads to injury, a lot of tightness in the SI joint. So it gets people, again, moving really efficiently, and they get the feedback. So if they're not able to mentally connect to their muscles, some people have really great body awareness, some people not so much, some people in between, and that feedback it gives you really helps.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Yeah.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: moving from the body to sound bath.
How does the vibration of sound bath physically interact with the fascia, and how is that integrated to Pilates?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Okay. [00:41:00] So if you think our bodies are made of a lot of water, so
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh,
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Hydrate it,
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: It's all has water. So if you were to look at a water molecule under a microscope and, make a sound nearby, hit a chime, you'll see
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: The... Yes.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: its shape. So that's exactly what is happening in our bodies, which is just, to me, so
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh, yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: so cool. And yeah. And again, it's going to, because of the tones and the frequencies drop you into your parasympathetic, so that's amazing. And then it takes us into, is that the brainwaves right
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yeah.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Dreamy state of right before you fall asleep, right? So you're able to tap into that subconscious where we, again, might have
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: trauma or blockage.
So it just really moves it without us to necessarily process it yet a whole bunch. It just shifts and moves it for us. So [00:42:00] the same thing then in a par- part of the body that might be really dehydrated, right? Or restricted. You get that movement through there. So yeah, it's just such a beautiful tool, and selfishly I loved it because going from dancing to plot- teaching Pilates all day, went from loving to be able to not talk and express myself through movement to talking eight hours a day. And then I was like, "Oh, now I have this beautiful thing I can do where I can not only express myself, but really tune into what people need and what my intentions are for them, and guide it through sound," which I'm, I just love.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: I was there in like couple of your sound baths, and how did you learn? If I... It's because I try to do the thing and it, it sounds horrible when I do it.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: I did go for, to a training for that with a woman who lives here in Aspen. We did it virtually.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: a, [00:43:00] seven-month program. And I just... Yeah, I fell in love with it. I had experienced it myself and was just like, again, such an amazing way to get to that part, that brainwave without having to work
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Exactly.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: it.
And then I did the training with her, and she's also a partner for Crystal Tones, and their bowls are just level, and once you hear them, that's all you wanna
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Oh.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: But yeah, so I did the training and then a lot of practice with it.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: You did a lot of things and you succeeded in integrating Pilates sound bath, functional medicine, all of those things. I'm glad that I, we talked to you today, and it has been fascinating listening all. We... I think you have many other stories that we need to go through. But for our listeners you can find Jill at her studio, Manna Pilates + Health located at 3575 Ringsby or Ringsby?
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Ringsby
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: [00:44:00] Ringsby Court in Denver or online in their website to explore the Manna orbs, which I personally have two sets of them. And...
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: you our orbs on the website. There's some complimentary videos there. We also have some on-demand classes.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Yes.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: we have Pilates, we have the fascia release, we have barre. There'll soon be more sound healing and breathwork on
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Wow. So if this conversation changed the way you think about your morning stretch or evening workout please subscribe and go to her website. We're gonna have the website in the description. Thank you so much, Jill. Thank you.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: Thank you, Reem.
reem-al-brahim--md--mph_1_01-23-2026_103120: Have a great day.
jill-guest432_1_01-23-2026_093119: You too.
